Spent a lot of time today going over a lot of religious videos, articles, and debate audios. Here’s one I decided to transcribe, from Ahmanson Lectures on Faith & Science, compliments of Saddleback Church. Obviously, this guy’s got a lot of Christian arguments to it, especially towards the end, but at least the first few sections are worthy of note.
IF GOD EXISTS, WHY IS THERE EVIL?
Taught By: Dr. Norman Geisler:
Date: Sunday, September 06, 2009
Three Basic Responses to Evil
Pantheism: Affirms God and Denies Evil
Atheism: Affirms Evil and Denies God
Theism: Affirms both God and Evil
But how can both be true?
Pantheism: Unrealistic (Affirms God and Denies Evil)
Science and Health
“God is all… Therefore, in all that really exists is in and of God” (339-240).
“Evil is but an illusion, and has no real basis” (480).
“There was a pantheist of deal
Who said that though pain is not real,
Yet when I sit upon a pin
And it punctuates my skin,
I dislike what I fancy I feel!”
If evil is not real, then –
Why does it seem so real?
Where did the illusion come from?
Why does everyone have it?
Why can’t we make it go away?
Atheism: Ungrounded (Affirms Evil and Denies God)
“My argument was that that universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust. A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line… Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too…” (MC,45) CS Lewis.
Evil Cries Out for God!
To explain how we know it is evil.
To comfort us in our sorrow over evil.
To give us victory over evil.
Theism: The Problem for Believers in God (Affirms both God and Evil)
God is All-Good – and opposes evil.
God is All-Knowing – and foreknew evil.
God is All-Powerful – and can defeat evil.
Why then does He permit it?
I. The Nature of Evil.
a. The Problem:
i. God created all things.
ii. Evil is something.
iii. Therefore, God created evil.
We can’t say that God didn’t create all things, would equate some form of dualism where evil existed forever.
b. The Response (St. Augustine):
i. Evil is not a thing:
ii. Evil is a corruption of a good thing.
iii. So, God did not create evil. Evil is real; it is a real lack in a good thing.
Evil is like rot to a tree. Totally rotten tree is like top soil. Evil is like rust to a car. You don’t have a totally rusted car, because you would need iron to have rust in it. Evil is like moth holes in cloth.
Well then, where did the “rot,” the “rust,” and the “moth eaten holes” come from?
II. The Origin of Evil
a. The Problem:
i. God is absolutely perfect.
ii. God cannot create anything imperfect.
iii. And perfect creature cannot do evil.
iv. Therefore, evil cannot arise in such a world.
v. But evil did arise in this world.
vi. Hence, either (i) or (ii) is false or both false. God is not perfect, and/or— God did not create a perfect creature.
b. The Response:
i. God is absolutely perfect
ii. God cannot create anything imperfect.
iii. And a perfect creature cannot do evil.
1. This premise is false.
2. Hence, the conclusion does not follow.
c. How a perfect creature can do evil.
i. God created only good things.
ii. One good thing God created was free will.
“Nobody ever marches ‘back to bondage, down with freedom, I want to do everything my mother ever told me.’ And even if someone did march against freedom, he would be freely doing it so it would be self-contradictory.”
iii. Free will makes evil possible, since –
1. It is the power to do otherwise.
2. But to do otherwise than good is evil.
iv. Hence, a perfect free creature can do evil.
There is no way God can make a free creature that can’t do evil. Or you can make a robot, but they’re not free to love. God can make a puppet, but it’s not really free
Note: God made evil possible (via free will = good)
But free creatures made evil actual.
“Henry Ford made a car, but he’s not responsible for every accident.”
Problem 1: How can one will evil when there is no evil to will?
Response: Evil arose when:
1. A good creature;
2. With the good power of free will;
3. Willed the finite good of the creature;
4. Over the infinite good of the Creator.
Note: No evil need exist in order to will evil; willing a lesser good can be an evil.
III. The Persistence of Evil
a. The Problem:
i. If God is all good, He would defeat evil.
ii. If God is all powerful, He could defeat evil.
iii. But Evil is not defeated.
iv. Therefore, no such God exists.
b. The Response:
i. If God is all good, He would defeat evil.
ii. If God is all powerful, He could defeat evil.
iii. But evil is not yet defeated. “Just because you’re in the middle of the novel doesn’t mean it won’t have an end.”
iv. Therefore, no such God exists.
Note: this conclusion does not follow, since – Evil might yet be defeated in the future.
c. The New Problem:
i. If God is all good, He would defeat evil.
ii. If God is all powerful, He could defeat evil.
iii. But Evil will never be defeated.
iv. Therefore, no such God exists.
Note: There is no way for the objector to know this – unless he is God (i.e., all-knowing), which is self-contradictory since they argue there is no God
d. The Response:
i. If God is all good, he would defeat evil.
ii. If God is all powerful, He could defeat evil.
iii. But evil is not yet defeated.
iv. Therefore, evil will one day be defeated!
The nature of a theistic God guarantees it!
He is all powerful and can do it.
He is all good and wants to do it.
Hence, He will do it!
How God Can Defeat All Evil.
Because:
1. He allows everyone to freely choose their destiny (So freedom is preserved).
2. He defeats evil by:
a. Separating good from evil forever (Mt. 25:31-41).
b. By quarantining evil forever (in Hell).
c. By punishing even and rewarding good (in Heaven).
d. By defeating death and Satan:
i. Officially at Christ’s First Coming (Col. 2:14-15)
ii. Actually at Christ’s Second Coming (Rev. 19:11)
The Official Defeat of Evil
Col. 2:14-15 “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”
Heb. 2:14-15 “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
The Devil has the bark but no bite.
The Actual Defeat of Evil
Rev. 19:11 “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war… And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”
Rev. 21:1-4 “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea… And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”
IV. The Purpose of Evil
a. The Problem:
i. An all-good God must have a good purpose for everything.
ii. But there is no good purpose for some suffering (e.g., useless or innocent suffering like a child getting cancer).
iii. Hence, there cannot be an all-good God.
Note: There is either a finite god or no god.
b. The Response:
i. Just because we don’t know a good purpose for evil does not mean there is none.
ii. An all-good, all-knowing God knows a good purpose for everything (including evil).
1. Some evil seems to us to have no good purpose.
2. But an all-good God has a good purpose for everything.
So, even evil has a good purpose.
c. Why We Don’t Know a Good Purpose for All Evil.
i. We do not know all things.
ii. We do not know the end of all things.
iii. But an all-knowing God knows both, so—
“The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but to us and to our children the things that are revealed” (Deut. 29:29)
“His ways are unsearchable and His judgments past finding out” (Rom. 11:33).
d. What We Do Know About Suffering
i. Some pain has a good purpose (e.g., warning pains).
1. A toothache
2. A pain in the chest
3. A pain in the lower right side
ii. We learn more through pain than pleasure:
1. Few enduring lessons are learned through pleasure.
2. Most enduring lessons are learned through pain.
Pain is God’s Megaphone
“God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world” (C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain, 81).
What God Does Through Allowing Suffering
“You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.” (Gen. 50:20)
“No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness…” (Heb. 12:11).
“For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all” (2 Cor. 4:17).
iii. This is not the best world possible (cf. Candide by Voltaire).
1. But it may be the best way to the best world, since:
a. Evil has to be permitted to be defeated.
b. Permitting evil is necessary to producing higher goods.
i. No courage without danger.
ii. No patience without tribulation
iii. No character without adversity.
iv. No pain, no gain..
v. No forgiveness without sin.
The Best Way to the Best World
1. This is not the best world possible (cf. Candide by Voltaire).
2. But God is the Best Being possible.
3. Now the Best Being possible must accomplish the best end possible.
4. But this world is best way to the best world.
5. Therefore, making this world was the best.
How Can Hell be Part of the Best World?
Because:
1. It is the best that free creatures be free to choose their own destiny.
2. God can’t force free creatures to choose heaven.
Why Everyone Won’t be in Heaven
“When one says, ‘All will be saved,’ my reason retorts, ‘Without their will, or with it?’ If I say, ‘Without their will,’ I at once perceive a contradiction; how can the supreme voluntary act of self-surrender be involuntary? If I say, ‘With their will,’ my reason replies, ‘How, if they will not give in?'” (The Problem of Pain, 106-107).
Heaven would be hell for the non-believer. You can’t force people into heaven
Jesus said, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,… how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.” (Mt. 23:37).
C.S. Lewis said, “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘They will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end. ‘Thy will be done.’ All that in Hell, chose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell.”
Stan said: “Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven” (in Milton’s Paradise Lost)
God said: “You’ve got it.”